Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sonor John
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Sounds like the recordist went for the "attack of the beater" (inside mic) and "tone of the drum" (outside hole on reso head)? I like your idea of the LDC out away from the reso, if you need to mic the bass drum. That's what I do although lately I've got an omni SDC pointed at the reso and that works really well too.
At this point, just trigger some bass drum sample (yuk) from the recorded sound if possible. Sounds like that was the sound the recordist was going for to begin with.
Why people insist on crazy amounts of mics on drums just irks me. Just reading this post made me spill my coffee all over my new shirt.
Think of the size of a bass drum...now let's try to capture that sound by sticking a mic INSIDE it????
Ok. Rant over. Time to change my shirt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
karlj
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Yes, and I did ask them for It : ) I wanted a little more "click" this time but didn´t thought of getting It this way..
Ha ha.. I do agree. When recording myself I like to have about 3 or 5 mics for a whole kit, but then Im super meticulous in placement and getting them in phase.
But I do also use 2 on the kick sometimes, ex when doing "heavier" Rock stuff and when having less time in the process..
This is the band doing all the recording by them self, with some bad guidance from me : )
The stuff I get from them is totally ok.
Aslo about this:
I am thinking of trying to guide another band that might record the drums self, into doing It with just a few mic´s but I have been thinking It could be a scenario were I get really messy tracks if Its not done in a good way and you need to have been doing It a lot before getting things sounds good with few mic´rather then the "classic" mic placement everybody know of from live-stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sonor John
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I doubt you're giving them bad guidance. One can shout from the mountaintops that a decent sound can be had from minimal mics but the 12 mics on a 4 piece kit just seems to be baked into the DNA of some recordists. Like you, minimal mics, phase awareness of those mics, and a good ear towards selection of drums/cymbals and playing approach appropriate to the material is key in my opinion.
Every time I've tried multi-miking, it just quickly turns into a point of diminishing returns and the complexity in balancing things that are unnaturally miked so close turns the process into an exercise in futility.
Good luck with the dueling bass drum mics!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris661
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There is a tendency towards over-micing drum kits (among other things). I can see a few reasons, and IMO none of them technical:
- Trust. If the engineer don't trust the drummer to play well with a good balance, then they may wish to be able to re-balance things as needed.
- Indecision (or, lack of information). The engineer doesn't know what sound they're aiming for, so they capture everything, in order to can figure it out later.
- Ego. The engineer has all of these "brilliant" mics, and wishes to display them. Perhaps the drummer will endure a short lecture on the merits of having this mic or that in whatever position it's being placed.
- Curiosity. The engineer has never tried this mic/position/whatever, and wishes to try it, in addition to their standard approach.
Of course, certain genres do demand close-mic'd drums for artistic reasons. Even so, micing the resonant head of a tom (for example) is IMO throwing time/money at something that simply isn't an issue.
Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ddy
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gotta disagree on the notion that using relatively many mics on a drum kit automatically leads to subpar results:
similar to using lots of 'spot' mics on an orchestra, it offers a few options in terms of how you wanna portray the instrument...
...but as every other technique, you need to learn to use it to your advantage - and if you use two different techniques in parallel, you needeven more mics! ;-)
14 mics on 5-piece drum kit imo is still 'reasonable' - in an isolated studio situation:
01 kick in
02 kick out
03 snare top
04 snare bottom
05 hats
06 tom hi
07 tom mid
08 zom low
09 <ohl
10 ohr>
11 <ambi l
12 ambi r>
add a centrally positioned 'knee' mic and a mono fok and you are up to 14 - without trigger mics or mics on x-hats, ride, side snare or additional centrally positioned m/s or x/y overheads etc.
Yeah, I strongly disagree with the idea that 14 mics on a kit is excessive!
If you want a strong stereo image, I find spot mics on hat and ride are essential - in the overheads, the ride tends to stay where it is, but the hat gets EVERYWHERE - so a little close mic helps focus it in the stereo picture.
Kick in/out - depends on the style, but an outer kick never gets you the actual attack I find. The inner kick mic is all about the attack. Position the two well, you get a good blend that works together. This guy clearly did not!
Same thing with snare - it's fine not using an under snare mic if that's the sound you're going for, but it's a lot easier to bring in the mic than it is to try and fudge the brightness afterwards!
2 kicks, 2 snares, 3 tom mics (I do draw the line at micing the bottom of toms!), a "flavour" mic somewhere in the kit...then hat/ride, overheads and rooms - there's your 14. What's excessive about that?
As a mix engineer, I'd much rather be sent that to work with than the single kick/snare/tom/hat/room I had to work with the other day...so if I'm tracking for someone else, I'll make sure I give them a balanced option to play with (as well as a flat fader balance that "works".
But it's not indecision or ego or anything at that point. It's experience in knowing what you want!
(and at this point, if I'm mixing the track, I might add a tiny bit of kick click and snare attack from a sample (plus a room sample), but rarely more than that. Whereas if I'm trying to get a bigger sound from smaller micing, I'll be doing all sorts of additions!).