Hi everyone,

This topic has clearly been covered a million times, but not specifically to my own needs - so, hopefully some of you lovely experienced engineers and producers could chime in!

I would to purchase an LDC for recording vocals and finger-style acoustic guitar (separately) at home in a small room (has been treated). I can only afford one mic, I'm happy to buy 'used' and have a max of around £400 but would prefer to spend more like £300 (if poss).

Musical style is early Ryan Adams-esq stuff.

Chain is: Mic / Apollo Twin X / MacBook / UA Luna / Genelec 8030 mons. I'd be using the Apollo Pre's. I also have an SM57 here.

So far I've narrowed it down to:

Neuman TLM102
Audio Technica AT4050 (or 4040 or 4047)
Shure KSM32 (more of a medium capsule apparently)
AKG C214 or C314
Warm Audio WA47jr

Any / All help and advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys

Beesneez Oliver FET.*
(47 FET Style)
AFAIK most affordable quality handmade mic.
Narrow pick up Pattern.
Chris
*I have the “Elly” Transformer version.
Informal “one take” example below.

These are all very different microphones. All severely colored, but in different directions.

If you record your voice on an RE-20 or a similarly neutral microphone, what don't you like about it? If you have to EQ it to fit it into a crowded mix, how are you having to EQ it?
--scott

Yes an audio technica 5047 sounds good. Borrow one first.

Sorry 4047

Austrian Audio are great value for money.

You could get a 16, but really save a couple of quid more and get the18. Its really good.

Thanks for your reply Scott. It’s not actually for my voice, so I suppose the answer to that is… a good all rounder vocal mic if possible?!

FWIW I shot out all these other suggestions.

Even had 2 RE 666’s for many years.
The RE20 ancestor.
(Hint. IMHO superior )

Was actually surprised the AT4047 didn’t work well on me.
When the Neumann 47 FET does.
(And the Beesneez/Heiserman versions do)

Got vocal clip examples.
Of your voice?

For your 57 (most likely)…
The Triton Germanium would “sweeten it”
I use that with my 58 now.
Chris
P.S. Had the 47jr. too.
Ended up selling it (along with an AKG P200)…
To someone who uses them on their drum kit.
3U Audio provides the 47 FET capsule BTW.

That would be the RE-20. It's never the best sound on any voice or mix, but it's always a pretty good one, and you can EQ it to sound differently if needed.

The U87 will always sound like a U87 no matter how you EQ it and that's great if you need a U87 but terrible if all you have is a U87 and you need something else. The U87 will bring a sound way up to the front of a dense mix, but you might not want to do that.

That AT4047 has a huge exaggerated top end and it does some weird stuff off-axis which can be useful on some voices... but it exaggerates tonsil noises and lip smacks incredibly. If you have a person who needs that, it's a good choice, but on voices where it doesn't work, it is excruciating.

Austrian Audio OC818 is a lot less bright but it still has a big presence peak and is very "pumped-up" sounding. Again, it's great if that is what you need, although probably more versatile than the other mikes you mention (but less versatile than an RE-20).

If you are selling studio time you need to have a U87 because it's good advertising and it will pay for itself even if you never use it.
--scott

I'd pick the KSM32 out of your list, great mic that fits the Ryan Adams aesthetic IMO, I should have bought one years ago.

It sounds great on harsh sources like cymbals, hi hats, bright steel string acoustics and sibilant vocals, it's also a bit forgiving in reflective rooms, it's not super bright or airy but that's why it works very well has great lows too.

I have a 4047 and the Warm 47. The 4047 is a great mic. You can use it on many sources. The Warm 4047 is a bargain for what it does, but it's not versatile. It has significant proximity effect. Great for outside kick. I wouldn't sing into it or put it on a horn or an amp or acoustic guitar, etc.

I know you know
But for other Readers…
Warm 47 is the Tube version.

My Soundelux U195 was factory modified per David Bock’s guidance (by 3U) to be somewhat less “veiled”/Vintage-y in Tone.
There were some Proprietary steps involved too.

It’s less of a crap shoot with the newer Octava 319’s. (Internals were upgraded)
As Scott knows!

But…
For a bit less $$. They can be very cool Character mics.
Better value bought used.

I like them, like the Warblers.
(For that lower price range)
Chris

I might be kicked out for this, but it seems like we're jumping in another rabbit hole here.

The best microphone is the one you can afford. So the OP has narrowed it down to only a few. Good. I don't agree with all of them, but that's not the point.

I think we should also keep the location of the OP in mind. He's using GBP (£), so prices and availability of some microphones in the UK might differ wildly (definitely compared to the US). Some of the models I see mentioned on these threads can hardly be found in Europe, or would cost an arm and a leg to import.

If I were given this list, I'd go for either the Shure or the AT, with a slight preference for the Shure, but that's not based on experiences with the AT4050, but on experiences with terrible lower end AT20xx microphones.

But then again, everybody's taste is so different.
I have tried microphones that were so hyped in the community, that I wouldn't touch with a stick under gunpoint today.

To the OP: so please try the ones you think would fit best, lend them from people you know, hire one, or find a shop that let's you test them. (and now I might get kicked out) forget about what any of us said, and use your own ears. If it's good enough for you, it has to be good enough for us.

Yes, I was referring to the 47 jr being good for outside kick and not so good for other things. I have the big Warm 47 as well, but that’s not in his price range. The big one is really nice. For some singers it works better than my U87ai.

I would recommend skipping the Warm 47Jr.... but the Shure and AT are both great bets and you could do pro work with either.

Not sure how much it is in the UK but I'd echo a hearty endorsement of the Austrian OC18. One of the best quality-per-pound/dollar/euro mics out there, it's a genuinely high-end capsule with a well-matched circuit, seriously pro and not expensive.

Gefell M930 would be great too but, again, not sure how much it is in the UK. Maybe a bit over OP's budget.

The one I would definitely not pick from the OP list is the Warm Audio as well.

The OC18 could really be the microphone for the OP (perhaps over budget), but there many others that are really valid for that spot as well (as pointed out above).

Thanks all for the comments! Some great info here and I’ve spent some time doing the research based on all your advice.

I’m going to keep my eyes peeled for a used AT4047 or 4050, a KSM32, or an Austrian OC18.

If nothing turns up, I’m just going to swallow the cost and get the OC-18 new. I can’t find a single bad review on it and it seems like a lifer purchase!

This has been my experience with this mic as well.

If you sound like him

Scott,

I hold you in high respect, but must disagree with this part of your post.


I find OC818s to be much flatter than most LDCs. I measure a HF lift of a few dB, which isn't excessive, and I'm not sure what you mean by "pumped up", but it's not how I'd describe it.
Could you share a little more about the usage of an OC818 that resulted in that phrasing?

I'd also suggest that the OC818 is one of the more versatile mics out there, with exception of the 3-capsule Josephson microphones. The dual output of the OC818 means you can alter the polar pattern in post - this is a pretty useful/unique feature.
Combine with the other stuff you'd want (high SPL handling, HPF, reasonably-low-noise), and I'd say the OC818 is an excellent mic overall.


Chris

You're right. Post-Brexit, pricing of imported microphones in the UK is pretty dire. I hid my location and poked around KMR, Gear4Music, Funky Junk, and Thomann to see what the OP can actually buy.

RE 20 is over budget but might be attainable. I use one every day for conferencing, but I don't think I'd choose it for my only studio mic. It's reasonably neutral, as Scott says, but I find it grainy. (I say that about most dynamic mics.)

AKG 214 is within budget but, even before Samsung fired everyone in Vienna, I never felt it lived up to the reputation of its famous sibling.

Austrian Audio OC16 is right on the mark, budget-wise. It's arguably a better capsule than current AKG production, but the rest of the mic has been de-featured and assembled in Asia to hit the price point. Like @ AVSC , I'd much rather see the OP buy an OC18, which is the cardioid version of their OC818 and has tighter frequency response tolerances. I own two of the latter and use them nearly every day. Unfortunately, an OC18 is essentially double the price in the UK.

We can't talk about AA without also considering another AKG engineering spin-off, Lewitt. These folks went hard into Asian manufacturing from the get-go, but that's let them offer very high value for the money. Generally speaking, Lewitt capsules tend to be a bit less forward in the midrange than Austrian Audio, but noticeably brighter on top. The Lewitt LCT441 Flex and the LCT 540S are the two main options here. The former is an eight (!) pattern mic at an amazing price; the latter is cardioid-only, but with significantly different specs. Ultimately, though, the differences come down to changes in the electronics -- it's the same capsule in both cases. Here's a video of Warren Huart using a LCT 540S to record an entire song. You can clearly hear the Lewitt capsule tonality on his voice. (I don't think I'd appreciated before how skilled a singer he is.)

As you'd expect for something manufactured in a former colony, BeesNeez microphones are easy to get in the UK. The hot ticket at this price point is Elly, a cardioid-only microphone based on a 47-type capsule. There are actually two microphones sold under this name: the bargain-priced Studio series (right on budget for OP) and the upscale Producer series (at almost double the price). It's the OC16/OC18 dilemma all over again: You get the same capsule in both cases, but they've made a lower-priced version by cutting corner on everything else. I do think there's likely a sonic compromise in this case due to the less-refined grille in the low-end version causing more internal reflections.

Several other microphones are worth mentioning because of their easy availability to UK buyers. The most obvious are two UK-based brands Aston and Sontronics. The Aston Spirit hits OP's price point but that's not my price point, so I've never heard one. Ditto for the Sontronics Orpheus: they've been around for a while, but I've never even seen one because they don't show up in the US. One further option is the sE Electronics T2, an Asian-made mic with a decent reputation.

This is a very tough price point, IMO, but the OP is not without options.

David

Oh, I'd agree with that. It's more like a 414B/ULS than anything else around today. But it's more pumped up than a Schoeps or an RE-20 (I am using the RE-20 as the reference comparison here) and it will make things bigger and brighter sounding.

It is way, way less colored than a U87 or an AT4047. But it's not going to sound like a live vocalist standing in front of you.

It is certainly one of the most versatile LDC mikes out there, but I am not sure I'd agree that it was the most versatile microphone in general.
--scott

I'm a bit spoiled.
$1250 and under?
(I thought the OP wanted under $1K or so BTW)

I want a hand made mic.
Preferably a Multi-Pattern if it's my only one.
Unless/maybe you can score a cool Tube.
Chris
P.S. I do dig the T2 though. T1 is the single patten.

Did I misread the original ask? I thought the target price was UK 400.

Yep I screwed up.
Back to Elly then

UK USERS:

There is a nice TLM193 on eBay today at a good price. (under £700)

That is a mic I would not kick out of bed.

Many better engineers agree.

I think that’s a good conclusion. But also, I don’t think you can go wrong with either of these mics. They’re all good mics.

It will essentially be a matter of preference for you. If you you’re ordering from a store or website, I recommend choosing one that offer free returns. This way you can try it in your space first and return it for another if something doesn’t quite suit you.

I tried a smaller brand's mic that did something similar. Like a microscope on my vocal chords. Completely unforgiving.

I came to the realization that the mic was going to be an obstacle to ever getting a good take. It just really brought the flaws to the front. It's the only mic I've ever returned.

Don't mind me, just going thru & liking every comment that mentioned the RE20.

Even made a pilgrimage to my 20's birthplace, Buchanan, MI. And found out EV left enough toxic waste that it became an EPA Superfund cleanup site.

Fortunately, I had other reasons to visit somewhere just over the border in Michigan.

You could even call it....

a mic-roagression

Some of the consumer musical instrument stores used to stock Aston locally here in Florida. Not the mics for my locker at any price point; but, different strokes for different folks.


Would Abbey Road Studios necessarily frown upon Aston mics?

Ray H.