Originally Posted by besairedt ➡️

This is almost a complete description of Akai MPC live. If only they didn't screw it so badly with midi, and with some other little things.
It's also almost Deluge, if it'd got a looper, usb host for controllers and some other minor additions.
It's also almost Octatrack, if it only had a bit more tracks and a bit more conventional workflow.
God damn it, if I only could marry those three, I'd be set for the rest of my life!

Originally Posted by guyacier ➡️

I had the MPC Live for about a year. The MIDI clock was not good. The entire OS felt cluncky and disjointed.

Originally Posted by RunnyKine ➡️

If you take out a DAW or MPC, and can only choose between an OT and a Deluge, you have to choose... do you want a killer sampler that's OK at sequencing (OT), or do you want a sequencer that's similar to a DAW with a meh sampler (Deluge)?

Originally Posted by guyacier ➡️

My only problem with the Octatrack is that it cannot send a patch change over MIDI.

So, the MIDI sequencer is limited in this regard.

I had the MPC Live for about a year. The MIDI clock was not good. The entire OS felt cluncky and disjointed. The idea is great though.

The OT is extremely flexible. Check out Thavius Beck’s tutorials. Also, go to Elektronauts. Some of the guys there are wizards with the OT.

This one guy uses pick up machines with pre-sliced trigs that grab live loops and instantly remix.

So you can have a static machine playing a backing tracking track with two pick up machines grabbing riffs that instantly start chopping and remixing and you can control all of this with the fader, parts, banks and scenes.

Originally Posted by mcpepe ➡️

With the planned OS update 2,1 for the Deluge, with a bump to the sampler section, it will not be a meh sampler.
I own both machines: Octatrack and Deluge. The Octatrack is a fantastic machine but Elektron is not putting any effort to improve it. With the Deluge, you are surprised every couple months with new features. Death project vs Live project

Originally Posted by Jamie munro ➡️

OT can send patch/program and bank change and I do it all the time, you simply operate on a part level when you need to do it which considering what is at your disposal isn't such a chore.

I totally agree that If they had made it pattern linked instead of part it would have been great but I imagine there is a good reason hiding somewhere in the smoke room of elektron in Sweden

Regarding pre slicing, yeah I do it all the time and it gets crazy, when sampling live inputs you get some crazy stuff especially if switching material from synth, bass, vocal and percussion but using the same pre sliced tracks-highly recommend it but be warned its easy to lose a day . I've come across many loops that are now saved as samples that I could never have invented with just a sequencer.

Originally Posted by guyacier ➡️

Yes, you can change a patch in each of the 4 parts.

I can change the patch with my Digitakt with every step!

It’s fine really. I sequence my Boomstars with the OT which I bring for live shows. So, it just kinda works out that way for me.

But for your typical songwriter used to program change messages it’s a little weird.

I know there are probably tricks to this. Maybe someone can chime in.

As far as I can use it: I can change the patch 4 times in each bank by changing the part.

I love the Octatrack man. It’s so deep and insanely creative. It’s a true instrument.

Originally Posted by guyacier ➡️

Yes, the Digitakt, Digitone and Analog Four and Keys can change the patch per step. Of course, the A4 and AK are not MIDI sequencers, but it’s the same principle.

You can parameter lock a patch change per step.

I can on my RS7000, as well.

The Digitakt is cool this way. I can pipe the patch changes into the sequencer, too. So I could scroll through the patches on my OB6 and the sequencer will record this.

Originally Posted by Jamie munro ➡️

yeah i know they will change their internal patch per step, i thought we were discussing sending CC prog change per step

edit: is that what you are saying about the OB6?

Originally Posted by oxband ➡️

I got the same question. I'm looking for a synth and drums to add to my live setup, and I've been thinking about the Deluge. I wonder how it rates with the MPC Live given the firmware updates.

Originally Posted by besairedt ➡️

Hey guys?
After my macbook let me down one more time (it died right before my festival tour) I decided to o laptopless. But the hardware world is full of compromises and I'm torn between these three beasts trying to pick The One To Rule Them All.
In my usual Ableton-based setup we (a duo) have a hardware portion of two Mininovas and Circuit doing live keyboards, basic drums and bass parts and the software that is responsible for parallel vocal processing (reverb, delay, pitch shifter etc), vocal looper (with it's own filter and delay), some additional loops and some midi-triggered sampled keyboard sounds (midi comes from Mininovas). We have a handful of controllers hard-mapped to desirable parameters (mutes, looper, filters, reverb sends etc), so we never have to look at the screen or think what exactly this knob is doing at this moment.
Moving to hardware I also want to reduce the amount of cables (ie get rid of controllers, usb hubs and stuff like this) I'm going to leave one Mininova and replace another one with a midi keyboard
In the hardware world everything is more complicated. SO far my option are:

1. Deluge + Midi keyboard with knobs and buttons + looper pedal
Pros:
- Deluge seems awesome - it can do all what Circuit used to do, replace Mininova and sampled synths by hooking up a midi keyboard and playing it's internal engine live, provide effects for the vocals (including pitch shifter), stream loops from the memory card.
- Deluge has midi learn, ie I can map all the necessary parameters to the knobs and buttons on the midi keyboards and forget about it
- It's small, battery powered, light weight and flexible.
Cons:
- The main bummer: it's always out of stock (that means 2-3 months to wait) and they ship it to Russia where I live only to the organization addresses (this means extra tax that increases the price by 30% at least)
- It doesn't have a looper, so I would have to get a looper pedal with midi sync (they cost pretty penny)

2. MPC Live + Midi keyboard
Pros:
- available in stock right now
- Looks like a powerful machine
- judging by manual it has a looper, it can launch clips, it supports midi learn
Cons:
- Midi is is not multitimbral!!!! (what's the???) So I can't play my midi keyboard and control anything but active track. This is a buzz killer.
- I'm not sure I can use looper with a midi controller.
- It's basically a underfeatured computer in the box, so why even bother?

3. Octatrack + Midi keyboard
Pros:
- available in stock right now
- all the scenes and p-locks etc give a boost of inspiration for live glitchy effects and other intended accidents
- It has midi implementation so I could use a flexible controller to control desired features (mutes, effects etc)
- it has looper
- It has 4 ins and 4 outs so I can use it as a mixer (less gear and cables to drag around)

Cons:
- Monophonic tracks, ie if I hook up a keyboard I can play only mono parts. Sucks.
- Limitations of 8 tracks (1 for looper, 1 for voc fx, 1-2 for midi in and the rest 4-5 for everything else)
- The wokflow is somewhat esoteric: tons of button combos, shortcuts to memorize, menu diving
- Looper without a simple undo/erase function as far as I can tell from the manual.

This is driving me nuts. I don't want to stop my gigging for 6 months waiting for the Deluge and then rebuilding all the live set. But those cons from the other devices are just intollerable, I couldn't find any information on those issues to be addressed in the near future.
Is there anything I'm missing or anything I got wrong? Maybe the MPC is already multitimbral or there's a hack to turn the Octatrack into a easy chill dream machine?

I don't know what am I waiting from this post actually, but maybe I just don't see some obvious solution. Or maybe there are more stones in this river that I don't know about and I should forget about dawless live performance at all.

Any input appreciated!

Originally Posted by besairedt ➡️

It's also almost Deluge, if it'd got a looper, usb host for controllers and some other minor additions.